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Donul ( Prije 4263 dana) (0)

I have a pretty important and controversial question: How can you be a christian while having liberal political views, particularly at issues like Homosexuality/Homosexual Marriage and Abortion? To me this seems very contrary, because the Word of God is very clear on those issues... God bless


kent ( Prije 4263 dana) (0)

I totaly agree on that. I can't understand how any person could call themselves a christian, and at the same time just pick those parts that they like and cast all other parts in the garbage can of history. I rather eat all of it and take God as he is, than to create a God that doesn't exist.


Paddy ( Prije 4261 dana) (0)

Where is the Bible very clear on abortion? Please don't get me wrong, I am against abortion, but please don't state scriptural evidence, where there might be none or it might be controversary.


kent ( Prije 4260 dana) (0)

you shall not kill is one... I can't see if there is any way to do an abortion without killing the child.


Paddy ( Prije 4259 dana) (0)

It's a commandment of the Bible, that is true. But the question is not: Is it ok, to kill a human being? The question is: Is a foetus a human, sentient being from the moment of conception? I certainly believe so but if our scritural reference is the 6th commandment it doesn't answer that question. We are all on the same page that the 6th commancment is speaking about human beings, right? Or are we all vegetarians?


kent ( Prije 4259 dana) (+1)

Jer 1,5 is a good example of that "Before you was formed in youre mothers womb, I knew you, and before you was born, I made you Holy...." This verse makes is very clear that God is not defining a Human being as a human being afther he is born. A man is a man no matter how small he is. Follow references on that verse and you will find more. There is no doubt about that the Bible define a foetus as a human being and not a vegetable. The reason for the hole discussion about when a human being starts to be a living creature with human rights, has to do with the moderne abortion debate and nothing else. Before abortion became an symbolic question for Woman activists, very few asked that question. There are several ways to define the point when human life starts, some very few define it as the moment when the child is taken out of the womb. Most countries defines it as murder of two persons if a pregnant woman is being killed. Afther the 22nd week there is a serious possibility to save the life of the child if they are being born, most western countries are trying to save most children afther that week. With other words, most western countries defines them as human beings with a right for life in the moment when there is a change of survival outside of the womb. Theorethical this would mean that the border will change and be earlier and earlier depending on the progress of moderne medicine. Where will this border then be in 100 years? Some define the moment when the heart starts to beat. That would be sometimes between 6 and 8 week if it should be detected and heard, but the actual beginning (according to my google search) are earlier... some say that it starts in the 4th week. That is about the same time as most woman that are cought by suprice of the pregnancy finds out about it. Since the Bible obviously shows that we are in Gods thought even before the foetus is there, and before any cind of sexual activity was done... it would be very clear that any abortion according to the Bible, is an unatural ending of the life of a human being. And therefore a killing of a human being. The word abortion itselves is not to be found in the Bible, becouse this was not a problematic of the antique or Old Testament world.


Paddy ( Prije 4259 dana) (0)

Now we are getting somewhere and I totally agree with you and now we have arguments that go further than "It is so, because I say so" - I think we have to be caraful about the way we present our arguments. I actually don't think it has anything to do with when it is possible to save a born baby - a foetus has to be a human being from a certain moment on, not changing with medicines possibilities. So the real question was: "How can one be christian and state that he is politically liberal at the same time?" And my answer is: I don't know - a lot of liberal standpoints are just not combinable with modern liberalism, in my humble opinion.


kent ( Prije 4259 dana) (0)

well, as I understand the question abowe, the question about Liberal political views is not meant in the meaning a Liberal view on Economical Politics... that would naturaly lead to the conclusion that the kapitalist system was bad in a christian point of view, and that a comunistic way of ordering the society was the christian way of organizing the economy. He is obviously meaning Liberal in the meaning... liberal on values (in contradiction to conservative). That will lead to the opposite political block and is very selten possible to combine with Socialistic parties. Most socialistic parties are normaly totaly against christian values on moralic questions. Some of them are also clearly having a anti-religion attitude against christians and want the liberty of moral to include most subjects like freedom to use drugs, eutanasi, abortion even late in the pregnancy, some even want to have an anti family policy where the gowernment take over the care of children, and others want to bann the right of religious freedom... These cind of things are not possible to combine with christianity.


Paddy ( Prije 4259 dana) (0)

i just saw that I made a mistake there that changed the whole meaning... I actually wanted to say: "A lot of christian standpoints are just not combinable with modern liberalism:" thats why I say, I dont know/understand, how a christian can state he believes in God and still hold the liberal views we've talked about.


cheryl5 ( Prije 3278 dana) (0)

Paddy, if you area  Christian you believe that a fetus is life at the moment of conception.  An unborn baby from conception to 9 months is called a fetus.  Would it be ok to kill the "fetus" then.  at a few weeks old there is a nervous system, brain function. a heartbeat.  It is a human and it is clear in the bible.  It is also clear to most Christians and Christian leaders that the U.S. will be grossly punished for the millions of murders it has a hand in, all over the world, as we are aiding the building and running of abortion clinics in other countries.  I too feel that the crumbling of this country is becuase we continue to all this atrocity to continue.  Even the woman for whom the Rowe vs. Wade law is about has recanted her beliefs on this, has stated that life begins at conseption, she was wrong, has asked forgiveness and is now a saved Christian who is a very strong Pro-Life advocate.  People have had abortions as far along as into the 3rd tri-mester.  Is that a life?  YES!  Babies have lived outside the womb at that stage.  You cannot be a Christian and waver on abortion.  There are no arguments that stand up to it.  People are under the misconception taht most of the abortions in this country are innocent pre=teen and teen age girls or rape victims.  According to Planned ParentHood, that is not the case.  In a severe trauma case such as rape or incest the odds of a person becoming pregnant are about 1% becuse the body during extreme duress just is not condusive to that.  The biggest percentage of abortions are with grown women, most professional in their background and a many married, who decide to abort because "they are not ready" or it is "just not convenient".  It is promoted and used as a form of birth control today and it is a sin.  A big sin.  It is murder and it is something none of the women that have one ever forget and haunts them forever with guilt.  If you do not believe me then I ask you to talk to women who have gone through this, especially women who now have children.  I have and that one act stays with them forever unless they are able to go to jesus and recieve His mercy and forgiveness.  

Also, any Christian who also has  Liberal political veiws is talking out of both sides of their mouth and is neither hot nor call and is lukewarm and in the end God will spew them out His mouth.  You cannot uphold Christian beliefs, God's lawas and uphold God's word and hold on to secular humanism beliefs too.

God Bless you all and Praise Jesus for His grace and mercy by which we are saved